Monday, July 25, 2011

FYROM or Macedonia?

On 18 July 2011 the United States House of Representatives published a Bill to authorise appropriations for the Department of State for fiscal year 2012, and for other purposes. On pages 52-54 of the Bill it analyses the topic of FYROM, referring also to its relations with Greece. 

The text states : 


17 (a) FINDINGS.—Congress finds the following: 

18 (1) Greece has demonstrated an enormous good 
19 will gesture in agreeing that ‘‘Macedonia’’ may be 
20 included in the future name of the Former Yugoslav 
21 Republic of Macedonia (FYROM) as long as that 
22 term is combined with a geographic qualifier that 
23 makes it clear that there are no territorial ambitions 
24 on the part of the FYROM with regard to the his-
1 torical boundaries of the Greek province of Mac-
2 edonia. 

3 (2) The FYROM continues to utilize materials 
4 that violate provisions of the United Nations-bro-
5 kered Interim Agreement between the FYROM and 
6 Greece regarding incendiary rallies, rhetoric, or 
7 propaganda, and United Nations-led negotiations be-
8 tween the FYROM and Greece have so far failed to 
9 achieve the longstanding goals of the United States 
10 and the United Nations to find a mutually accept-
11 able, new official name for the FYROM. 
12 (b) SENSE OF CONGRESS.—It is the sense of Con-
13 gress that all United States assistance to the FYROM 
14 should be conditioned on the FYROM’s willingness to en-
15 gage in meaningful discussions with Greece in accordance 
16 with United Nations Security Council Resolution 817. 
17 (c) LIMITATION.—The Secretary of State may not 
18 use funds authorized to be appropriated under this Act 
19 for programs and activities that directly or indirectly pro-
20 mote incendiary rallies, rhetoric, or propaganda by state- 
21 controlled agencies of the FYROM or encourage acts by 
22 private entities likely to incite violence, hatred, or hostility, 
23 including support for printing and publishing of textbooks, 
24 maps, and teaching aids that may include inaccurate in-
1 formation on the histories and geographies of Greece and 

What is important is to see that, although the US has recognised (in 2004 with President Bush) FYROM as Macedonia, here it uses the term FYROM. The United Macedonian Diaspora published a leaflet, signed by Metodija A. Koloski (President) explaining that the Greek lobby in Washington is to be blamed for this, expressing in bold letters "Are we going to let the pro-Greek lobby in Washington, D.C. succeed?! NO!" 
However it is, from a Greek point, questionable how President Bush came to the conclusion that FYROM should be recognised as Macedonia. That being said it is again questionable how around 130 countries have accepted this name for the small Balkan state.   
Greece has shown up to now that it will not tolerate this historical false name and the fact that another country wishes to adopt part of Greek history. This was emphatically shown when the previous PM Konstantinos Karamanlis vetoed FYROM's acceptance within NATO in 2008 in Bucharest.  
For those who like history it is essential to express the following, which are issues supported by the Greek side and the international community, i.e. professors (even in FYROM) and people who have actually read a book or two.!
It is proven by historic documents and archaeological discoveries which can be found in all the history books and museums in Greece and around the world that ancient Macedonians were Greek. The most important archaeological discovery in Macedonia is the tomb of King Philippos II. It was excavated in Vergina, Greece in 1978, and it proves beyond any doubt the Greekness of Ancient Macedonia. All the finding are characteristic of the Greek culture and all the inscriptions are written using the Greek language. Among the discoveries of this tomb is the Vergina sun, which was the symbol that FYROM attempted to use on its flag, initially. 
According to historical books, including those analysing the Ecclesiastical History of the Slavs, the Slavs descended into the Balkan region not before the 6th century, long after ancient Macedonia was homogenized with the rest of Greece. This is evident through Byzantine sources explaining the relations between the Byzantine Empire and the new neighbours, i.e. the Slavic groups. They do not have any historical, cultural or linguistic ties with ancient Macedonia and they would be really foolish if they officially claimed that they did. There is no historic or archaeological evidence connecting them with ancient Macedonia. In any case occupying 25% of ancient Macedonia land does not give them the right to steal the Greek-Macedonian history and culture. The Macedonian civilization was part of the ancient Greek civilization. It is part of Greece's national inheritance and it cannot be used by anyone else. 
It is a shame that many countries have recognised FYROM as Macedonia, showing their ignorance to historical facts, making them non-reliable. I am sure England would not accept the Nazis state that Winston Churchill was German, or the USA would not accept its Founding Fathers being stolen by the Japanese. Why should Greece then accept this historical, cultural, linguistic and religious fallacy? However Greece is not the only country which has been bullied into this problematic relationship and status. Bulgaria is also a neighbouring country expressing its dissatisfaction. A paradigm is found here.


  1. Know what else? They also officialy claim of a Macedonian language which is from what I could "read" slavic (created for them by Kyrillos and Methodios). Are we sure that Greece fought to stop this? I wonder.

  2. I heard about the "macedonian" language, as also for the "macedonian" identity, culture and people! This of course was not accepted by Greece but I am not sure what Greece has done about it!

  3. It took the most right-wing ultra-hawkish administration the United States of America ever had to recognize FYRoM as Republic of Macedonia. The most Capitalist, most fanatical 21st, Century American mind-architects issued advice that placed political-expediance above academic reference-points. Driven by economic-security concerns, flip-charted scenarios, geo-strategic concerns, audio-visual presentations, all produced to 21st, Century standard pitted against political backdrop where FYRoM was seen to be onside and Greece was not. Greece played maverick...FYRoM played nice!

    The point here is this: Decisions were made based on advice issued. Both had consequences that went against the core fundamental civilizational-priciples Western society is based on. GW Bush decision to recognize FYRoM as Republic of Macedonia was based on poor-quality substandard advice...ill-judged, ill thought-out advice - academically flawed advice. If the advice issued was flawed, then so was the decision that precipitated it. Those who acted on poor-quality advice are not to blame as much as those who issued the advice in the first place. So the advice-panel assembled to advise GW Bush have a lot to answer for, their advice was responsible for prolonging a name-dispute that would not have lasted this long had they issued proper academically accredited advice to begin with.

    The Western worlds champion is the USA. The West depends on successive American administrations taking decisions that protect the fabric of Western society, it means defending those civilizational-principles it is based on...erode those principles and you begin a process of destruction that will see the Wests core cultural foundation crumble. It is inconceivable that this is what was intended when in November 2004, GW Bush was [ poorly ] advised to recognize a minor Slavic country by a Greek-Hellenic name. FYRoM is not Macedonia and the peoples there are Slavic. Nobody of worth, political diplomatic or academic confuses Paeonia for Macedonia or ex-Yugoslavs for Macedonians. That advice panel assembled to advise GW Bush have a lot to answer for!

    The Western worlds cultural foundation depends on Macedonians being Centum-Greek speakers and Alexander the Great spreading Hellenism. Any diversion from this long-established academic reference-point will erode the civilizational principles Western society is based on. That advice panel cannot be allowed to get away from something that is so fundamental to the West. Issuing academically-flawed advice whos consequences might profoundly affect our understanding of Western worlds long-established cultural historical narrative is [[ revisionism ][ pseudo-history ][ propaganda ]] criminal, but much worse than that when issued to Western worlds chief protector, the President of the United States of America.

    FYRoM is not Macedonia and the peoples there are Slavic - they do not speak Centum-Greek and they never spread Hellenism. In-fact, they hate Hellenism...the culture of choice for West, the bedrock on which Western society is grounded. That advice panel assembled to advise GW Bush cannot be allowed to get away from the consequence of issuing poor-quality, politically-mischievous advice to the highest office in Western world.

  4. The Macedonian name belongs in the Greek domain, Greek-speakers created it. Macedonian Identity belongs to Greek heritage, endowment received from long-chain of Macedonians stretching back to days of King Karanus 778-808 BC. Only hardened propagandists or severely brainwashed individuals draw strength to speak publicly their indoctrination on this subject. Some politicized-propagandized Turks see modern-Greeks like Yunans, an eastern oriental term meaning Ionians. Ionians were ancient-Hellenes like Aeolians and Dorians. Collectively, they were known as Achaeans, according to Hittite records. Hittites recorded early-Greek peoples in cuniform, their writing system. Clay tablets preserved important peaces of historical information for posterity. Propagandized-Turks differentiate between Yunans Greeks Hellenes Byzantines and Rums, Turkish term for Eastern-Roman. Because Greeks are known by many names according to specific historical period, politicized-Turks play on this to distance modern-Greek from previous generations. Greeks live next to shrewed devious eastern-oriental Turkic-peoples that learned to play politics Western-style.

    The Slavs of FYRoM do exactly what Turks do. Differentiate between Dorian-Greeks and Ionians, and Aeolians. From them, >230 known, ancient-Greek groups, tribes and kingdoms collectively affiliated to form the Hellenic-tribes from antiquity. Hellene is universal self-ascription for all Greeks. I am Hellene from Macedonia for example. I am Hellene from Sparta for another example. I am Hellene from Corinthia, for third example. Final example: A Macedonian conversing with other Greek is Macedonian but to foreigner, NoN-Greek stranger, he is Hellene...from Macedonia.

    So Greeces neighbours, both Turkic and Slavic propagandists work in tandem to break the links that exist between modern-Greek and previous generations of Greek. For Turks, Greeks are not Eastern-Romans, Byzantium was not the Eastern Roman Empire, Hellenes were not Greeks, etc, etc, etc. The Slavs from FYRoM do the exact same thing with Macedonians and Greeks. Oriental Turks on the one hand, playing politics Western style, better in some cases than Westerners. FYRoM Slavs on the other hand, playing politics with human rights. They see it as inalienable right to self-determine after Greek-Hellenic name when Macedonians always self-ascribed Hellene, the host native, indigenous autocthnous name all Greeks ascribe universally.

    The Haemus-peninsula is primordial homeland for Hellenes - Greeks shall never relinquish elements from their cultural-historical inheritance to politicized-Turks or propagandized FYRoM South-Slavs.

    Macedonians have right to keep as close as possible the Identity-characteristics of their ancestors. Keeping Macedonia Greek is important for Hellenism. Hellenic culture is culture of choice for West...the foundation on which Western Civilization rests. Erode that and everything Hellenic crumbles. South-Slavs become Macedonians and Turks become Trojans - this is our future history if Greeces neighbours had their way!

  5. A cell divided is still a cell. An organism disected is still an organism. A people-group fragmented is still a people-group. Division disection or fragmentation does not detract from the fact that the loose parts assembled, make the whole from which they split. FYRoM is divided part of Slavic cell for example. Disected piece from Slav organism, for another example. Final example: FYRoM is fragmented portion from Slavic people-group. In this context, FYRoM cannot be the Macedonia it wants to be. Slavs cannot be Macedonians on same logic.

    Macedonia is Hellenic on cell analogy, organism analogy and people-group analogy. Macedonia cannot cut loose from Hellenic cell naturally...force required to pierce membrane for example. Cutting Macedonia from Hellenic organism is another example. Final example: Macedonia is intrinsic integral componant of Hellenic people-group, important part of the whole...just one part of >230 parts. Macedonians stem from Dorian-Greeks same like Spartans. Macedonians are the northern branch whilst Spartans form the southern branch...both connect to Hellenism, to Hellenic cell, to Hellenic organism, to Hellenic people-group.

    The Idea that Macedonia could be cut away from Hellas, and Macedonians cut-off from Hellenic collective of peoples, was only ever in the minds of some sick and twisted anti-Hellenic factions working to erode Hellenisms cultural contributions to Western Civilization. Anti-Hellenic factions employed in Western worlds highest political echelons lobbied for destruction of Greece, lobbied for erosion of Hellenic contributions to Western civil society, lobbied for slow incremental demise of civilization based on Greek wisdom and Roman jurisdiction.

    To usher in new global monolithic-culture based on new belief systems, Western civilization was going to have to learn to live under rules and regulations. Monetary fiscal themes and synergies were to create new Economy Gods, Commercial Idols and Trade Idols the global community would look up to. Trade blocks working to rule were to replace Hellenic Ideals and core values with trade and commercial ones. This future was only in the minds of some sick and twisted anti-Hellenic mind-architects employed to lobby for replacement of Western Civilization with new one. Greece was the focus of their attention until they were ejected. On their will, and on their demands did FYRoM attain recognition as Republic of Macedonia.

    Western societies future understandings of classicist history, cultural-inheritence, and legacy-endowments, would be greatly compromised if future history missed out on some vital important pieces of historical Macedonians were Centum Greek-speaking Hellenic-peoples for example. Ancient-Macedon was Greek Kingdom for another example. Final example: Alexander the Great was Greek King of Macedon. Messing with these long-established academic reference-points is what keeps the name dispute between FYRoM and Greece ongoing!

    Whilst those sick and twisted anti-Hellenic, anti-Western mind-architects have long disappeared, lost in some other obscure 5th columnist cause...the 21st Century future they terraformed is stuck in the minds of some sick and twisted ex-Yugoslavs indoctrinated on their silliness...and on the silliness of Makedonism, the homegrown Slavist-based indoctrination they receive on daily basis that teaches Proto-Slavic origin of Dorian-Greeks. FYRoM's simple-minded, simple-hearted population get double whammy, shafted twice. Hard to recover from double whammy - FYRoM has long way to go before realization, they were simply minor pawns in effort to diminish Hellenisms cultural-historical contributions to Western Civilization.

  6. Macedonian Identity characteristics are Mono-Hellenic from since the days of King Karanus, the first King of Macedon 778-808 BC - FYRoM cannot espouse Macedonian Identity on equilibrium with Greeks on that basis. Nobody of worth, political diplomatic or academic campaigns to see FYRoM erode the Western worlds cultural-historical narrative. It is an indulgence for South-Slavs to equate themselves with the Macedonians of old...a pretentious existence to live their lives. FYRoM is not Macedonia and the peoples there are Slavic, with Slavic Identity-characteristics. Nobody of worth, political diplomatic or academic mistakes South-Slavs for Macedonians or confuses Paeonia for Macedonia.

    Macedon was ancient-Greek Kingdom at northernmost extremities of Greek world. Paeonia was where FYRoM is now - FYRoM should be called Republic of Paeonia and the South-Slavs that dwell there should be called Paeonians. Macedonians have always been Greek...Greek-speaking Hellenic-peoples. Nobody has right to erode the Western worlds cultural-historical narrative unilaterally. Nobody has right to script FYRoM a history and heritage based on Macedonian legacy endowments. The Macedonian name belongs in Greek domain. Macedonian Identity belongs to Greek heritage...deny this and you erode something primordial from Western worlds cultural-historical narrative - a narrative that depicts Alexander the Great as Greek King of Macedon and Macedonians like Centum Greek-speakers spreading Hellenism.

    Erode ancient-Macedons Greek-Identity. Erase Macedonians Hellenic Identity-characteristics...mak e them Slavic - what then, are the consequences for overiding long-established academic reference-points. What then, are the consequences for keeping, preserving historical cohesion. The dangers in rewriting history just to establish FYRoM as NoN-Greek Macedonian Nation serves who in particular, and serves what ultimate purpose. Ultimately, it serves only to diminish the Western worlds cultural historical heritage, a heritage based on Greco-Roman cultural foundations - civilizational principles first developed in ancient-Athens further refined in ancient-Rome. Greek wisdom and Roman jurisdiction form the basis on which common Western cultural Identity developed. Macedonians played major part in that development - FYRoM played no part in that development...why should FYRoM be awarded recognition as Republic of Macedonia!

    Western culture is under threat. The threat comes more from within, more than from outside. Fifth columnist mind-architects, working to terraform us better future work more to erode Hellenic elements from Western worlds cultural historical inheritance - Why ? Who benefits from that mode of thinking! Working to make FYRoM Macedonia and to make ex-Yugoslavs Macedonians at the expense and exclusion of Greek concerns ultimately serves who ? serves what purpose ?

    Western culture is irreplaceable - worth keeping, worth preserving, worth developing...until it evolves into global culture of choice, universal culture. Why destroy it when there is nothing else to replace it with.

  7. Macedonia:How FYRoM Came Close To Destroying The West.

    In plain terms and simple language: Western mind-architects viewed Greece like strategic-partner important-ally during WWII and Civil War years. Then fall of Communism came and things changed. Western mind-architects view of Greece changed.

    In terraforming new political landscape for West, Greece was relegated to unimportant status in planning stages...Turkey and FYRoM were elevated in importance, sketched into blue-prints that planned for Neo-Ottoman Control of Balkan area, covering FYRoM, Albania, Kosovo, Bosnia-Hertzegovina - Where Turanid influence was greatest. Turkeys one time strategic-partnership to Israel, allied both to the subscription of blue-prints mind-architects sketched-up to terraform West bright future.

    Planning economic and geo-strategic future for Haemus [Balkan] peninsula at the expense and exclusion of Greek Ideas and Greek concerns...placed those mind-architects terraforming them in direct confrontation with Greece. Excluding Greece from blue-prints sketching future for Haemus Greek-peninsula saw FYRoM recognized as Republic of Macedonia, saw Turkey utilizing Western media assets promoting Turanic-culture, like alternative-culture to Western-culture, for Balkan statelets coming under Neo-Ottoman control. FYRoM in Western media outlets was promoted like ancient-Macedonia, land of Alexander the Great, where Macedonians differed from Greeks, where Macedonians spoke Slavic and hailed from Proto-Slavs. Turkey promoted like Neo-Ottoman controller with ancestry, history and heritage stemming of ancient-Trojans.

    In plain terms and simple language: The West lost it's way. Led by politicians and diplomats dissinterested in Culture, History and Principles of Civilization that developed them...more interested in ruling over cultureless fake entities emboldened by recognition, empowered to indulge in pseudo-historical revisionism.

    In plain terms and simple language: Enemies of West...Western Civilization in particular, lurk within, in diplomatic offices where 5th columnist mind-architects are employed to terraform us bright future. For them, cultural-historical narratives mean little and count for nothing. For them, future history excludes Hellenic and Greco-Roman contributions to world history. For them, future civilization devolops on their Ideas, by their will, as they demand.

  8. The easiest job in the world is proving how Hellenic Macedonians have been throughout the ages. From since the days of King Karanus 778-808 BC, with countless entries in the Western worlds cultural-historical narrative recording them as Greek-speaking Hellenic-peoples, one would be hard pushed to disprove historical reference-points in order prove otherwise. Only hardened propagandists and severely brainwashed individuals attempt to erase Macedonians Hellenic-Identity in order to superimpose on them Slavic-Identity. Only hardened propagandists and severely brainwashed individuals equate Macedonia to FYRoM and Macedonians to ex-Yugoslavs.

    The easiest job in the world, on par with the one above, is proving how Slavic FYRoM is. Define Slavic and FYRoM ticks all the boxes. Slavdom includes FYRoM into their collective. There is no higher endorsement than that.

    The hardest job in the world is proving how Slavic Macedonians have been throughout the ages. Slavs never knew this name before the 6th Century AD. The Slavic tribes entered Byzantium...the Eastern-Roman Empire during the last decades of the 6th Century AD, not as Macedonians but as Draguvites, Berzites and Sagudates - FYRoM's immediate closest Slavic ancestors.

    The hardest job in the world, on par with the one above, is proving how Macedonian FYRoM is. Define Macedonia and Hellenism comes to mind. Define Macedonians and Centum Greek-speakers come to mind, spreading Hellenism, led by Alexander the Great the Greek King of Macedon.

    The name dispute between FYRoM and Greece is a silly dispute - silly in that some anti-Hellenic factions in the West entertained minor Slavic country's indulgences. The damage it has done to Western societies understanding of common cultural heritage is their doing. The damage it has done Western worlds cultural-historical narrative is also their doing. The damage it has done to Western Civilizations cultural-historical foundation is their doing, the same.

    FYRoM came close to undermining Western worlds cultural cohesion. Almost ruined Western societies understanding of common cultural bonds, bonds that tie the West to civilizational principles first developed in ancient Athens and then refined further in Rome. FYRoM nearly destroyed Western worlds historical cohesion...aided and abetted by some anti-Western, anti-Hellenic mind-architects with mind to give West new narrative based on new civilizational principles developed on Banking, Trade and Commerce.

    Preserving historical-cohesion aids in maintaining social-cohesion. Erode Western societies understandings of common cultural heritage and you dilute the glue that binds West together culturally. Was this the intention ? Recognizing FYRoM as Republic of Macedonia aids in the erosion of Western worlds cultural-historical narrative. Was this the intention ?